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 G&G GR16 upgrading

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Ramos

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PostSubject: G&G GR16 upgrading   Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:54 am

Im looking to increase the Fps and accuracy of my G&G GR16.
Current Fps: 340-350
Upgrades: None


Wanted: 400 Fps and better accuracy. Im think about two different options for the accuracy.
1. Increase barrel length by attaching a silencer and increasing the inner barrel length

2. Get the G&G GR16 R5 Front Kit
http://b2b.guay2.com/eng_part/eng_front_kit/front_kit2.htm

I know there are more ways to do this, but im still a noob when it comes to upgrading AEGs.
Comments/advice
Please and Thanks
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PostSubject: Re: G&G GR16 upgrading   Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:47 am

I imagine a tighter barrel, better hop up, and increased voltage are a good start. Not sure.


Fireman knows his stuff. Maybe he'll chime in.
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PostSubject: Re: G&G GR16 upgrading   Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:27 pm

very simple
get a stronger spring
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Ramos

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PostSubject: Re: G&G GR16 upgrading   Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:53 pm

TEDDER1 wrote:
I imagine a tighter barrel, better hop up, and increased voltage are a good start. Not sure.


Fireman knows his stuff. Maybe he'll chime in.

I though that a increase in Voltage only increased the ROF.
I know for sure that im gonna get a stronger spring. but for accuracy im still looking.
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Tedder1
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PostSubject: Re: G&G GR16 upgrading   Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:49 pm

If you upgrade the spring, dont you have to upgrade the voltage so the mechanism will actually spin it? Im not too versed on it all either...
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PostSubject: Re: G&G GR16 upgrading   Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:16 pm

Batteries effect your ROF. You can get a better air nozzle, hop up bucking, and tight bore to get a bit more power and accuracy. Definitely talk to someone who knows what they're doing like either Fireman, Tripps, or Maniac. Some of them might not be on this board yet.

Just talk to Fireman. He has the know-how and the elbow grease to lead us to a new land!! lol!
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PostSubject: Re: G&G GR16 upgrading   Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:55 pm

Summary (lol):
-Get the longest barrel length on your gun you are comfortable carrying
--Either get a longer upper receiver or a silencer or both. The silencer is the cheapest and easiest option.
-Know how long your gun will be and buy a 6.01mm barrel of that length

Gearbox:
-M120 or equivalent (400 fps spring)
-Metal Bushings
--You need an experienced airsmith to install and shim the gears to have a good sounding gearbox that won't break.
-You need to use a large battery or greater than a 8.4 small battery
--More volts and physically larger batteries increases rof but add strain to the internals

If you just have money, you can get an FTK for $120, I would highly recommend a Guarder FTK even over a Systema one. Other cheaper brands, such as matrix, are not as good ad guarder. Systema is (sometimes) better, but is generally twice as expensive and only 1.10 times as good (sometimes worse).


But Getting different air nozels, gears, or any other part will add functionality to your gun, but aren't that important, especially when you are looking for the cheapest, easiest, most maintainable gun.






Well overall these are the same upgrades that all airsofters want. Airsofters want better accuracy and more power. What you are really looking for is range and accuracy. Now they are different in that accuracy is (for a specific distance) how consistant you can be (having the bb hit the exact same spot) whereas range is simply how far the bb can travel. But, range is only useful when it is accuracte, so if you have the velocity to shoot a far distance but not the accuracy to hit anything, its not particularly useful.

Things that affect Accuracy(in order of precedence):
1. Barrel length and tightness
2. Velocity
3. Hop-Up (Fine tuning)
4. Gearbox consistency (Fine tuning)

Things that affect Range (in order of precedence):
1. Velocity
2. Barrel length and tightness
3. Hop-Up

Being a sniper, range and accuracy are extremely important to me. I have to be able to hit a target in one or a few shots because if I can't hit them before they see me, or outrange them, I am extremely out-gunned.

With barrel tightness, you will experience the biggest increase in accuracy and with an fps upgrade you will experience the biggest increase in range. Past that, you get to fine tuneing, but those two offer the most substantial increases over a stock gun. I'll offer you solutions that I think are the easiest to build and maintain rather than "the most perfect gun."

Remember, guns are like cars. There are the cars you buy from a car dealer and there are race cars. Race cars require substantially more work, but have more capabilities. At the same time, the race cars are more limited in what they can do because they are specialized.



Tightbore Barrel:
You want to get the longest length possible. I would suggest getting a 6.01mm tightbore, as you are wasting your money getting 6.03 and up (6.03 don't offer as much improvement over a stock barrel). You want the longest length you are comfortable carrying around on your rifle. Most people do this by extending the barrel into a silencer. The downside is that you can never remove the silencer while using that barrel, but its an easy way to add barrel length to a gun.

As for the G&G R16, I won't comment on the compatibility and I don't have experience with them, you have to do your own research for that. But if it allows you to use a longer barrel and either the silencer does not add enough barrel length of you don't want to use a silencer that is a good option. The problem is that RIS kits, new external parts, are extremely expensive and over-priced. So be careful what you are wishing for and where you are allocating your money.


Velocity
As for getting it to 400 fps, you want a systema M120 or equivalent. Airsoft companies have no standardization on naming different spring strengths, so you have to know how each company names its springs. PDI uses % or something simillar so you would get something like a SP140 as an equivalent to an M120.

Now when you upgrade your spring, it is essential to get your bushings upgraded if they are plastic. Otherwise the force of the new spring will rip them to pieces and you will likely destroy a gear or piston or tappet plate and end up replacing more expensive parts in your gearbox. You will have to take note the battery and motor you are using as well. If you are trying to power a high power spring with a lot power motor and a small 8.4 battery, your rof will be low and you will hear the spring going back and it will sound like a beat up typewriter.
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Ramos

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PostSubject: Re: G&G GR16 upgrading   Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:36 pm

wow thanks for the feedback!

>6.01 tightbore barrel
>Silencer
>M120 Spring (im looking to get around 400fps)
>higher Voltage Battery (and somesort of housing compartment)
Is a better motor required? come with a Motor: 25000 rpm Hi-torque
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PostSubject: Re: G&G GR16 upgrading   Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:18 pm

Ramos wrote:
wow thanks for the feedback!

>6.01 tightbore barrel
>Silencer
>M120 Spring (im looking to get around 400fps)
>higher Voltage Battery (and somesort of housing compartment)
Is a better motor required? come with a Motor: 25000 rpm Hi-torque

Yeah that seems good. If money is a concern get the tightbore & silencer last. The spring & battery etc will be a bigger improvement over the stock gun, and the tighbore will be more effective with the higher velocity.

Also you need to get metal bushings. Bushings are part that go around the gears, most guns have plastic ones, but some models come with metal ones now, so try and see what your model has. Regular, not ball bearing (only high-speed setups).

Battery: Look for either a large 8.4v to use (longer gun life) or any 9.6v. The 9.6 will give you a higher rof, but the larger 8.4 is healther for the gun and will likely fill all your needs.

So your order woudl be:
1. (Guarder/Any) M120 Spring
1. 8.4 Large or 9.6 small (& housing either stock, foregrip, or external)
1. (Guarder) Metal Bushings

2. Silencer
2. Tightbore Barrel

Shimming are the small metal "washers" that sit between the gear and the gearbox wall. They make sure the gears don't rattle when they spin. Too tight means the gears bind and lock up too easily, and too loose and they rattle, make noise, and lock up when they get out of sync from jumping around. Properly shimmed makes your gearbox purr rather than whine, and increases the life and durability of all your parts.

Make sure when you install that the tech can do shimming. Going to a commercial place they will most likely do this (though I'm yet a fan of any commercial installations, I heard Airsoft GI was good though). Most local techs do not know how to do this correctly. If not properly shimmed, your motor will work harder, your gears will grind louder, your mechbox will be inneficient, and you will reach part failure much faster. Its one of the hardest things to do correctly when installing new parts, is probably the most important, and is probably the most overlooked.
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Ramos

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PostSubject: Re: G&G GR16 upgrading   Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:51 am

http://www.airsoftpost.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_44_218&products_id=28316

that includes a list of what my gun has. (same gun, just last years version)
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PostSubject: Re: G&G GR16 upgrading   Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:42 pm

Slayer put out a lot of great info.

I'd say to go with a Prometheus 6.03 barrel myself unless you have money for a PDI 6.01

Prometheus barrels run about $60.00 each and PDI's are over $100. If you happen to find them for less, please let us know!

Also, if you extend the barrel so that it has to be covered by by a silencer, be sure not to have it hanging in space too much... If the barrel hangs out too far without support, it wobbles and completely defeats your desire for greater accuracy. If you decide to go the route of a silencer to cover up barrel sticking out, make sure the barrel doesn't stick out farther then an inch or two. Any further and you'll need to wrap the barrel in something (electrical tape) so that it is tight against the inside of the silencer (which needs to attach tightly as well). It's not the best way but it works... In the past I've gotten everything centered and poured liquid rubber or even fiberglass resin down mine to create a casing for the barrel. In part, this is why I always tell people that it's easier to just buy a longer gun then to try to make a short gun long...

Your bb quality is also something that makes a major difference. If you use bb's from Walmart or bb's that you paid $10.00 for 5,000 you shouldn't expect to get a lot of accuracy out of them because they are not as consistently made as brands like KSC or Excel.

You also want to use heavier bb's like .25's. They will stand up to wind better and travel straighter longer.

Motor wise your stock motor should be fine with a 9.6 or so battery. An 8.4, especially if it has low Mah will have a hard time pulling a heavier spring. If it does pull it, it will do so at a very slow rate so your rate of fire will be quite low.

Spring wise, if you get a tight bore barrel, an M120 will put you above 400 (unless you've got some sort of air leaks). I'd go with a PDI 150% or an M110 so that you can use this gun at games where 400 FPS is the limit as well.

If you want me to take a look at the gun and put in any parts you buy I charge a base of $25.00 to do gun work. If it's something more complicated, it doesn't tend to get more than an extra 10 or 15 dollars unless it's something really crazy and custom. Let me know and we can arrange something.
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PostSubject: Re: G&G GR16 upgrading   Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:49 pm

Fireman wrote:
If you want me to take a look at the gun and put in any parts you buy I charge a base of $25.00 to do gun work. If it's something more complicated, it doesn't tend to get more than an extra 10 or 15 dollars unless it's something really crazy and custom. Let me know and we can arrange something.

This is the route I would suggest. LoL.

Its no good upgrading a gun if you do it improperly and you spend more time with a broken upgraded one than a working stock one.
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PostSubject: Upgading nono's?   Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:15 am

I myself have a gr16 plastica as well that I upgraded and have noticed some things that I'm not sure should happen. I upgraded the spring to a systema m120 (which I heard is actually equivalent to a m130 because it's so stiff so I probably shouldve put in a systema m110 instead) and a lipoly because a 9.6 got like 5 rps and thr lipoly (11.8 I think) got at least 15. As far as the problems go, I noticed that the motor seems to get pretty dog-on warm (not really hot, but in between) after 75 shots. That's only either using burst firing or quick single shots. Another thing is with the accuracy. I noticed that I got better accuracy with G&G .2's than I did with TSD.25's. Sometimes, the gun would seem to fire a 2 TSD bbs out at once. With the g&gs, however, I am able to hit a 1.5x1.5 foot target fairly consistently at 170 ft w/ iron sights. After further reading on TSD's, I learned that they're great in non tbb guns (which makes me think that the plastica series do come with tbbs). But would the motor getting warm and thr tsd bbs coming out more than one at once be a huge problem or am I just freaking out unnecessarily? All in all, it's a great gun and I dot feel like taking it apart too often myself or shelling out a ton of $ to get it fixed. Also, can the g&g stock wiring take a lipoly or am I gonna be replacing all that too?


Last edited by ramboman5780 on Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: G&G GR16 upgrading   Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:10 am

if you want accuracy, check this out, ask the guy what his setup is, might help you out.
Either way this shit is insane

This is even more over the top with his VSR-10
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PostSubject: Re: G&G GR16 upgrading   Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:32 pm

Airsoftgi.com has begun selling 6.01 barrels for about $40.00 since this thread originated.

I've had a few in my hands and they seem to be pretty nice. Solid aluminum but quite thick/strong. The only problem I've had with any was a little bit of cleaning that needed to occur where the hop nub hole is. I had one barrel with a few burrs that was keeping bb's from passing. Used my wire bush cleaning rod and knocked them right out.
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PostSubject: Re: G&G GR16 upgrading   Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:22 pm

I think that anything longer than the stock 363mm barrel lenght is excessive at 400fps with the amount of cylinder capacity of an M4. A longer barrel may require a bore-up cylinder kit.

I also believe that a barrel tighter than 6.03 in most cases is a waste aswell on a full auto gun. I have recently seen a trend with sniper rifles that the guys are replacing or cutting down thier stock outer barrel in order to run a 380mm (stock marui VSR G-spec) barrel lenght and are also going to 6.03-6.05mm barrels.
The heavier material barrels (stainless or brass) will have less tendancy to wobble or vibrate less in the outer barrel which will upset the accuracy obtained by the TB.

As was stated earlier in the post, an M120 or similar spring, metal bushings (G&G GR16 should already have them) a good shimming and a larger battery will get you the power you need. An 8.4 will pull it but it will only fire like 10-12RPS at best with the stock motor. A 9.6v will do better but a 10.8v will get you about stock (maybe a little higher)ROF.

A good hop up bucking and nub along with a GOOD QUALITY TB barrel will increase the accuracy by leaps and bounds.

I have a 363mm Madbull V2 (ok) and MB hop-up shooting 403-405FPS and it is more accurate at 150' than my L96 (stock with spring spacer) sniper (490mm 6.08) shooting 480FPS with .25g Javelin BB's.

Everybody is going to have a different opinion but the formula is the same. TB barrel, Hop-up, M120 spring and minimum 9.6v battery will get you respectable accuracy and 400 +/- FPS.

Ramboman: It sounds like your shimming is too tight. The stock G&G motor should pull an M120 to 9-10RPS with an 8.4 and 13-14RPS with a 9.6v. An 11.1 LiPO (close to 12.3v fully charged) should be in the 17-18RPS range.
Your motor getting hot after 75rds is and indication of high amperage due to high load. More voltage will increase amperage but the risistance on the motor is still eccessive if its getting hot after 75rds.

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