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 OK my airsmith noob is showing

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SHWELL
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PostSubject: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Fri May 28, 2010 6:07 pm

OK, some of you have seen my previous posts. I have a week old Cheetah MOSFET and I am trying to run it on 2 different guns.

Gun 1:
ICS M4
ICS Aluminum Piston
Stock Gears
Systema Turbo, ICS 3000, AMP T5000L, DBoys Stock
M130, M100, S90 Springs
E-F Cheetah
Stock Switch with Lo Resistance Wires

Gun2:
Echo1 614
Stock Gears
Same Motors as above
Stock Spring (410FPS) and M130
Stock Switch and Stock Wiring

Both guns are being run on 11.1v Lipos.. One is 35c and the other is 25c... But same results as listed below.


I am getting smoke from my motors and Overheating of the MOSFET.. WHat I also notice is that the gun will start really slow and increase n speed while shooting in Full auto... And this is not a soft start I am talking about, this is 10rps up to 30rps then overheat... I thought I was having gunsmith issues (Me doing something wrong), but the fact that both guns are doing the exact same thing...

I am at a loss. I have a bunch of parts coming in for the iCS, I am trying to build a moderate speed reliable gun, but so far I am at a loss. So far I have not been able to test my new Cheetah because every gun I out it on so far has not functioned for more than one hi cap mag... The motor gets too hot to hold the guns, and then there is the smoke, and then the FET giving me the 3 vibration (ovrheat) cutoff... This happens with all the motors...

I will put up a vid shortly showing this happening on the Echo 1... I have reshimmed 8 times between the two guns, ensuring that the bevel gear is not too low, and the make certain the gears are moving as free as possible.. I am at a loss... i plan to rewire it this weekend in hopes that my problem is wiring.. I did have to solder the negative wire to make it long enough after wiring in the Gate wires.. SO to eliminate this as the problem, I am going to rewire with complete wires long enough to eliminate an splicing.

My last resort is sending it to someone here who can help me fix this... I am now desparate, my last game of the summer is next Weekend (36 hour game), I am running out of time.
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Fri May 28, 2010 6:27 pm

You are over amping like crazy somewhere.

Double check your motor height.

The splice shouldnt be an issue as long as the wires are like size and metals.

I wouldnt think that stock wiring would cause that much issue either.

Have you contacted Extreme-Fire about the problem?

What kind of connections are on the motor?

Have you checked the resistance values at the Batt./motor terminals on the FET to make sure the contacts are working properly?

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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Fri May 28, 2010 6:30 pm

Maybe Extreme-Fire has decided to incorporate their company's name into all their products?

I've heard they're really good about customer service though. If the problem is on their end, they'll help you through the problem and send you out a new one if need be.
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Fri May 28, 2010 9:19 pm

yeah, I have been in contact with them a lot. I was just making sure I tried everything b4 I asked for a replacement. Terry at E-F has been great so far..

I am using Deans, and the Splicing is perfect..

I have not checked the readings, but I have tried adjusting the Motors a lot, and no matter where I have them set, I am getting the same results.. I even shimmed the pinion gear a little higher than normal and that did not resolve it..

I was tempted to try the FET on another gun, but I dont want to risk t... I need at least one of these guns back up for the EX-PD game next weekend.. I ewould install a FireFET, but I am still waiting on it to be sent to me.
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Fri May 28, 2010 9:24 pm

I think Fireman is backed up on making them because I'm waiting for one too.
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Fri May 28, 2010 9:41 pm

I've learned to buy them from him on Ebay.... If not it is a months wait even if he says he has them ready b4 you pay... lol.. Supply and demand.. When dealing with the best, you wait like the rest... lol..



After rereading my original post, I am leaning toward the FET being the root of my problem.. Because the Echo 1 is a new gun and is still stock... Outside of rewire and reshim of the bevel gear following some advice from Terry (E-F), the gun is stock and should be working fine...
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Sat May 29, 2010 12:22 am

Ok glad to see someone else with this problem. I have a trigger master MOSFET. Same as yours just different name. I think I know what the problem is , I also have an ics m4 with turbo 3000 motor that motor is a strong motor it dose not have cheap ferrite magnets like some of the cheap motors it has rare earth or similar magnets witch makes a very strong magnetic field. So the motor makes more tork but will draw more power. The MOSFET has active braking how that works is to stop the gun afer the shot it loads the motor to stop the gears so the motor and the MOSFET get loaded twice as much. Now ad the extra load that comes with 11.1v on top of that and maybe extra load from a heavy spring and you have a lot of current going through the system and things are going to get hot. The last game I played was the first I played with the MOSFET and I had the gun set to 3 round burst and it overheated also , the only thing I can think of is the constant start & stop of the motor while shooting makes too much heat. So I reprogramed it to have semi and auto no 3 round burst . I have not used it in a game yet but I went in the back yard and ripped off a 300 round burst on auto and the motor barely got warm. Since it only started the motor and stopped it once. I will be at the paintball world game sunday so I will see if my idea is correct , so we will have an answer Sunday . If that dosen't take care of it I will try my 8.4v nimh batt. and see if that fixes it. Bob.
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Sat May 29, 2010 1:08 pm

SHWELL wrote:
I've learned to buy them from him on Ebay.... If not it is a months wait even if he says he has them ready b4 you pay... lol.. Supply and demand.. When dealing with the best, you wait like the rest... lol..

You talking about me or Terry? :-P
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Sat May 29, 2010 10:35 pm

You Chris... lol...

I have bee n back and forth With Terry all day.. He said the Cheetah's do not handle as much current as his panther unit, so he is sending me one of them Tuesday. He said his Pather units handle more than 2X the burrent of the Cheetah...

I plan to spend all day Tues playing with what I have now in hopes that it is my tech skills. But I really doubt it.

Fireman and Auto I will get with both of youi concerning our messages to one another.. Thanks guys.

I hope after all of this, that my problem is not my Chinese Lipos.... I hope the power output of them is not the Culprit..... I will share my findings as soon as I get them. Thanks for the support guys. I really appreciate the feedback.

If it is the batteries, then I can be happy using my 10.8v NIMH Batts.. Or a Firezone special, the all Holy 12v.....
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Sat May 29, 2010 10:36 pm

Actually, I think the fact that the Lipos are Asian trumps the 12v in terms of Firezone approved batteries.
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Sun May 30, 2010 12:42 am

SHWELL wrote:
You Chris... lol...


When have you bought from me straight through ebay? :-P

Yeah basically, people on ebay can leave feedback so I have to give them theirs right away. They don't understand what it means to wait in line for something. :-/ Sorry that it means sometimes they get to "cut". I don't like it either. :-(
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Mon May 31, 2010 4:20 pm

My future Firefets will be through Ebay.. It helps you keep it simple and it also helps you get feedback to the outsiders...

I have been getting a lot of inquirees about your FETS, I hope this has helped your Ebay sales go up... And because the interest is there, I decided that buying them from you on Ebay would work best for both os uf.



Even after trying the Extreme-Fire.com Computerized FETS, I would still buy a FIREFET any day of the week.. They are simple, and effective.... The Customer service provided is top notch.. Having you be local is a bonus as well.
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Mon May 31, 2010 4:24 pm

As for my issues.... Terry from Extreme Fire is sending me out one of their Panther Units... This unit has all the functions of the Cheetah minus a few extras (None I use), and it has higher heat tolerences, so it should help me identify if the cheetah unit was the problem or not. It is a bigger unit (Physically), but because I keep the FETS in the PEQ box with the battery, it is not a problem.


I just finished reshimming my ICS again, and it is a little looser than I really like it, but it moves smoothly and should get the job done.. I will see how this works out... Waiting for my upgrade parts before I put it back togethetr....


The Echo 1 will be reshimmed tomorrow the same exact way, but I will be installing a FireFET on that one, they are just proven to work and give hi ROF...
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Mon May 31, 2010 9:50 pm

Ok I used my gun at the pbw game yesterday and it rips off hundred round bursts no problem . I did notice that if I shoot a lot of short bursts the active braking dose make the motor a little hotter than normal. Overall it worked great , I think if you have active braking and you have a hot motor or heavy spring it would best to probably us 8.4v to keep from having problems if you are going to use it hard . Just my 2 cents worth. Bob.
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:38 pm

Thanks BOB...

After the reshim I was getting through more mags b4 meltdown, but because of how it is happening, I am thinking it is my either my Motor, or the Lipo is killing the Motors...

This last test was on a stock Dboys Motor and it smoked more than it ever did before... One last teardpwn and I hope I can settle this issue.. I know it is not the wiring, and I know it is not the Shim job... When I take it apart this time, I am replacing the spring one more time with an M110 and switching to a 10.8v battery.
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:55 pm

REMEMBER if all else fails, put a 12v in it
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:39 pm

One other thing , I was thinking about this a little more and let me throw this out , when we use the Shar recomemded 12v batt. it makes a lot more rpm's so everything is spinning faster than normal so it will take a lot more current to stop everything so when we use our lipo's we are useing everything to the limit and have to keep that in mind. I think I may just use my 8.4v batt. next game and see how much cooler everything runs I may just use that batt. from now on , it dosen't hurt to be easy on the equipment. Bob.
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:46 pm

Just so you know, you guys can all blame Shar's 12V obsession on me. He heard my gun, I showed him how cheap the batteries were on ebay and started the love affair that is Shar and the 12V.

Just a little "history lesson" Smile
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:42 pm

Ok everyone you heard it, Fireman said just blame him . So From now on the new Firezone slogan is , JUST BLAME FIREMAN. Lol. Bob.
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:31 pm

I was there for it.. And it is def Firemans fault...

i just took the ICS and put 600 rounds through it without a hiccup or heat buildup.. My Lipo that I like to use may in fact be too much for the Motors to handle..

11.1v Lipo 3000mah 35c.... 45c burst....


I also ordered some new batteries as backups today... I got another 10.8v 1600mah (9.99) and a 12v 1600mah (9.99) from Amazon.... Shipping was $7 I think... Should be here on Thursday or Friday...Having these will have all my guns running 20+ RPS.. So I am happy right now.. Just have to figure out if my 615=4 will perform on lower voltage like the ICS has..
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:17 pm

I alway figured that 25c was the highest you would want to run due to the lack of knowing exactly what the amp rating of motors.
LiPO's will enhierently discharge at a higher voltage than NiMH and the c (discharge) rating will have a direct effect on the amp sent to the motor.
A 15c constant (20-25c spike) 11.1v LiPO will produce better performance than a 12v NiMH in a smaller package but may not destoy your gear.

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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:38 am

SHWELL wrote:
Thanks BOB...
I am thinking it is my either my Motor, or the Lipo is killing the Motors...


WHEN WILL PEOPLE LEARN! Lipos kill, people. Lipos kill. Just say no.


That, or be prepared to buy new parts.
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:06 am

Lipos kill people?? why wasn't that on the warning label?

I like my gun with a lipo so I'll take the risk right now unless it really becomes a problem later.

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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:12 am

lipos dont kill people you liberal. people kill people lol.
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PostSubject: Re: OK my airsmith noob is showing   Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:13 am

people and 12v batteries kill people.

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