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 AAR for Red Dawn

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FA-Chris M
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:05 pm

Shar told me that my post made some people angry (to the point that some of them want to know who I am so they can talk to me in person...)

If it's those of you in the truck who are angry with me, I do apologize to those of you who feel I "called you out" if you were not a part of the problem. I REALLY appreciate whoever it was who donated the truck very much. Know that many people on the American side did not want to shoot at it for fear of denting it and many of us tried to avoid hitting it when we could. :-)

One thing that all airsofters should remember. "Don't look for reasons to not call yourself out. Look for reasons to do so". If you have to sit there and think about if you're out, you probably are. :-) Can't remember who said that to me yesterday but it was one hell of a quote!

A majority of the problems I mentioned are things I was told by other players. At one point I watched Tedder lay down his gun so he could go up and have some words with the people in the truck. He's a pretty laid back guy so to see him get so frustrated as one of the leaders of our side really meant something.

From my standpoint, I did personally shoot the driver at one point with my sniper rifle. The truck stopped and I thought he was going to get out or that the truck had stopped because he was "dead and unable to drive it". Moments later, his gun came out of the window and began to fire at other guys near the road.

Now I will admit, there is a chance that I could have missed. The reaction of the truck stopping right as I made my "kill" could have been a coincidence.

The problem though was that after hearing this same complaint from so many others, and then seeing the truck roll by with the driver window up... Seemed like something was going on.

Please know, I say "seemed" because I do not know for fact that anything was going on. The only fact I have is that others were having the same complaints. The problem with this though is that they could have all missed too.

Once again, for those of you who think all I do is complain (it was supposed to be constructive criticism). :-)

THIS GAME WAS REALLY GOOD! WE TALKED ABOUT HOW WELL RUN IT WAS BACK IN STAGING. WE TALKED ABOUT HOW MUCH WE ENJOYED PLAYING AND HOW GOOD THE PLAYERS WERE BEING WITH CALLING HITS AND RULES. WE ARE LOOKING VERY FORWARD TO THE NEXT BIG GAME!


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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:10 pm

In my experience with Airsoft.... Vehicles never equal a good outcome...

Keep the feedback coming guys. If everything was smooth, we would not need these Threads.. They cannot be imporved if we do not identify problems.
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:40 pm

Once again, to those of you still angry with me.

The reason the "guys in the truck" are being "put on stage" here is because well... You were in a big red truck that drove back and forth all day.

If someone came up and said "man those (swear word) guys in the truck just won't die", it's because they felt like they shot the hell out of the truck and that something "had to make it in". For all we well know, they could have hit nothing but metal all day!

If no one in the truck got hit, it's not the fault of any of them for not getting hit. I do not wish that they had gotten out had they not been hit. The problem lies in the amount of ammo people put into the truck, the fact that the truck was such a big problem for us (I mean that purely on how badly it fucked us up at times with the drive-bys) and how many people think that their guns are far more accurate then they really are...

The reality of things though is that anyone in the truck was lifted to a level above that of the average player (and I don't just mean the 3-4 feet off the ground that the truck put them at. Ha ha ha). Sort of like celebrities if you will. Random guy down the street has an affair and no one cares. Specific celebrity has an affair and EVERYONE has something to say.

By being in a position such as the truck, it just puts more onto a player to be sure to give no one a reason to feel dishonesty is occurring. I know it sucks, it's just the way the world is. :-/ You step into the spotlight and all eyes are on are you.
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:05 pm

1200 rnds from 50 feet away doesnt need good accuracy. (number shot by me alone, excluding the other 6 guys)

The only problem with the guys in the truck is you gave conflicting stories. One guy said NO BBs hit the bed of the truck which I knew was BS, another said some did, you guys were scrambling to pick up gun cases and other things to block yourselves... Hit a wasps nest?

I will say Badtrooper was honest and I give him cool points for that. Thats when I calmed down. He admitted there were plenty of BBs landing. He was ducked down tight by the the tailgate, didnt even know he was in there with the other 4 guys...

I say we can keep the truck if we reintroduce the grenade kill for it. Put 20 guys in the back of that thing as long as we can bomb it. End of story. I liked the truck.

Maybe the next thing we should build is a bathroom area?

I will volunteer to watch as a ref and guide. Carrying that gun sucks.

As a general note, sometimes BBs dont hit people like you'd think, so please do not get so mad. If you are 100ft out, shooting at a guy looking out a porthole of a pillbox... Youre probably missing him/her.

I feel bad because out of reaction I called the second spy girl a bitch when she killed me.


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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:18 pm

Its like Fireman says, everyone witness the truck, so thats why its being made an example off. My team was off in the canal during the second game and pouring fire into the rear and side of the truck and we could also hear the rest of the Americans doing the same, including launching an Orange-Grenade into the back of the truck. The guy who threw that was even yelling out that it had landed in the truck and that the truck was then dead. Luckily, I was never on the recieving end of one of those drive-bys. I think the grenade rule wasn't that clear in regards to when they counted and when they didn't.

I know the guys in and around the North FOB bunker were very honest when we attacked them. I would not have liked to have been one of the guys inside when the 12 or so of us attacked it (with a SAW too) and there was no way we were hitting them through the slit. We did manage to get close enough to drop a grenade in though and they came out with their kill rags on.

Oh, fireman, get my PM about my email address?
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:30 pm

So far what I see is....

BATHROOM of some sort.... (Donations would def help with that)

Establish Rules for the field that are standard, and covered at least once before the game (There are new peeps every game)

?Maybe some sort of Admin duties to help tighten up integrity just a tad better, and also distribute in game changes to all sides simultaneously? The Communication aspect of this is the vital part in this.

Special circumstances need to have Rules defined before hand (what was expected of the usage of truck)

*This is just an idea... At Lunch break have another Briefing to allow the commanders to go over concerns of the first half of game play (As part of the time alloted for lunch)



I will adjust if more feedback is left.
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:32 pm

It is interesting to see all these different players having the same issues that my team was having. There is nothing more frustrating to me than watching my bbs clearly hitting someone standing in the middle of a field (with my 4x zoom scope from about 100 feet), hearing the bbs hit the person, watching the person flinch and wave their hand in the air, wave their red flag and call hit, then turn around, walk ten feet, stop then turn around and fire at me. I swear my team and I shot one individual in particular about fifteen times. To me that absolutely ruins any enjoyment in playing when you encounter "players" like that. Im with Fireman when he says perhaps they should be banned if that continues to happen.

Overall though, I had a great time. My team (Orlando Wolfpack) had a great time, and it was fun getting out and meeting new players and getting to explore a whole new field. Overall, with the exception of a few zombies, everyone was extremely friendly and honest about called hits. There were a couple times where I was actually surprised that someone called a hit when I shot at them or tossed an orange at them, lol. I was pleasantly surprised by that level of honesty though. Overall, there wasnt really any issues out of the ordinary that arent in any big event. I had a great time! Thanks for putting on such a fun event.
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:39 pm

In defense of people in the truck:

Ricochet's have never counted at any other games I've been to. Not at Camp Blanding, not at Wayne's World.

Some people have called themselves out for a ricochet if they personally felt that had it been a real bullet it would have had enough momentum to still kill them (rather than just fall on them) but that has always been a personal call and up to them and how realistic they wanted to go with things. Many of the times though, had it been a real bullet it would have buried itself into the wall rather then bounced like our plastic likes to do. That's where the argument comes up and things get sticky.

Shar and Tedder, do you feel that ricochet hits should be made a rule or do you agree that it would just make things overly complicated?
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:40 pm

Glad you guys made it out and had a good time. Hope to see you at the next one.
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:44 pm

I spent a lot of time in the first game at the South FOB on the radio. When the truck was down there the QRT guys were definatley calling thier hits as I was watching them. I wasn't with them the whole day but for the time they were near that FOB they called thier hits. I think some of the confusion with killing the truck was not everyone had a clear understanding of how to kill it. In the future I would suggest that you kill a vehicle with an RPG round or a grenade in the bed if it has one. If it is an actual armored vehicle then it would make sense to nerf football it. I know several people had them at the game but did not use them. We have used a golfcart with a tank shell over it before and we used a jeep cherokee armoured up and both worked very well and had no complaints. Vehicles can be fun and useful in a game. Here's some pictures of the old golfcart tank. It looks odd but seemed to work out..It had a port for a machine gun out the front and an aircannon for destroying bunkers.








I think having a few more admins would be great. I would volunteer to rotate out with other people to do admin duties.
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:48 pm

If you asked for 5 more dollars from everybody for a field fee that would cover a porta john I would think. Does anyone think 15.00 is too much? I can't see that being a problem for anyone.
*edited for clarity there.


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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:50 pm

$15 to be attacked by Zombies and still make it home for dinner...... Where do I sign up..... lol.. just kidding... lol...
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:55 pm

Sixfootcow said it best last night over pizza. "No more than $10.00 Shar!"

Keep the price low and more people will be able to afford to come. Especially those "[poor] college students" Shar mentioned earlier :-)

I thought Shar mentioned earlier asking his dad for one making it free for the thing itself. That would only leave the cost to have it drained once in a while. Anyone know how much that runs? I'd hope that we wouldn't need $325 dollars (the amount $5.00 x 65 players would pay) to have one cleaned. Hell... would it even cost that much to completely rent one for the day?


EDIT: http://www.mesawasteservices.com/provider.php?Provider=aawsi

Or, http://www.potty.com/ (love the site address...)


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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:03 pm

My bin was markedly smaller than yours I imagine but I should have been prepared. :shrug: Whatever I guess 15.00 for a great game and not having to shit in the woods sounds like a bargain to me but opinions vary. 15.00 is dirt cheap. 10.00 is cheaper. My response with 15.00 was that if he was going to put coin out to get a john then perhaps people would be willing to pony up a few extra bucks for the convience.
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:11 pm

No you're right. I was thankful that I didn't have to "pop a squat" anywhere. I can't recall the last time I actually did a #2 at an airsoft game. I do feel for the women though who'd rather not have to do anything of the sort in the woods, especially with number of guys around...

It would be worth researching but hopefully wouldn't cost so much we'd each have to pay $5.00

I think that if anyone was asked, they'd rather hop in a car and drive the 2 miles down to McDonalds if it meant they'd save $5.00. They could even get a double cheeseburger or a few apple pies in the meantime!

Then again... they'd be back in about an hour... :-/ Ha ha ha


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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:12 pm

RICOCHETTES DO NOT COUNT AS HITS GUYS. NOT ON FIREZONE
as firemen said, in real world a bullet will never ricochette of a metal truck, so they do not count at any circumstance. that

and we all need to give a BIG thank you for the guys in the red truck for bringing it to the game! instead of this lynch that I see unfolding right in front of my eyes. not cool.
I personally saw the whole QRT truck team spawn at least 5 times, if anything, they got killed more than other people in the whole game.

I dont want us to turn into the whole negative mentality of other sites, we all need to be COOL like 2 fonzys with each other otherwise my games will turn into something none of us will like.

whos donating a decent good truck to be shot at, and used as a shied from 100's of bb's???? DO I SEE ANY VOLUNTEERS? and than run into a tree and damaged? plus let other players drive it? ANYONE?


thank you W.I.R.C. we would like you guys to come again. I personally apologize for any offensive comments meant against you guys on my forum. if anyone has done so, its because they probably have encountered other dishonest players and are sick of it and not because anyone has anything against you guys. again, thanks.
I will have 4 dedicated admins on the next game and this is A GUARANTEE. anyone who knows me knows I dont just talk and BS. I DO WHAT I SAY my word is steal.

p.s. we will be more clear with everyone regarding the use of a vehicle if you guys are kind enough to donate us one after all we said.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING, AND NEVER WILL BE - A PERFECT AIRSOFT GAME! WE ARE DEALING WITH HUMAN BEHAVIOR AND THAT CANNOT BE CHANGED.WE ARE ALL HUMAN. WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES. THAT IS ALL I HAVE TO SAY.

SHAR.


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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:14 pm

LEt me get the golfcart tank going again and I'll bring and you guys can shoot the piss out of it. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:26 pm

Hell yeah we need to thank the owner of the truck!!! Sorry that it became such an issue. I'd never have said anything if I knew it was going to go so far. :-/
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:30 pm

That golf-cart-tank looks pretty awesome....get a second one and have a tank battle Wink
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:37 pm

Regarding the Ttuck.... First of all we were never made aware of the Ornages counting as kills. We came in there twice and two guys picked up oranges and threw it in the truck. Both times we did go back to respawn ( we went to a diffrent one since we couldn't get the truck to the designated respawn. We then called in Shar asking about the oranges and said that the oranges would not count as kills anymore.

About the whole entire shooting up thing. When you guys poured into the truck, we were ducked down pretty much the whole entire time. It's not like we weren't standing up and fireing back at you guys, we had at least 100 bb's fall on us from richochets. I'd like to point out that 95% it was them fireing at us hiding in little corners of the truck and 5% of us quiclky popping up and shooting back.

I was the only guy from my team that went to vietnam game, and I do not appreciate us getting blammed for s@#$ other people did. When Teder came up t ous and told us that Richochets counted, we told him that we were hit plenty of times by richochets we backed out and went back to respawn.

I can understand how some of you guys are upset about this especially Tedder since the is ussually one of thoe coolest guys around, but I think your are exagerating the sotry to where it sounds like we all took 25 bullets to the head and we didn't calll it.



I apologize for the mix up of rules and we will woprk with Shar regarding rules with the truck, we may not even use it again, we prefer to run around anyways.We are a highly respected team in TC/6mm and Mind games, don't believe us, ask Mac or Coco about W.I.R.C or Boss's guys, they would swear by us.



About Justin(driver) staying in the car. There apprenttly was a case were the Americans highjaced the car for awhile and later on we discovered a large dent in the car. Shar told him to stay with his truck, he knew you hit him fireman, in fact apprenttly someone teagged him with a sniper rifle from about 45 feet away and he started to bleed ( or so I was told) I don't what to say about him shooting though, I can not justify that, (maybe he was just pissed?)

We would like to say thank you for Shar to letting us come out here, we will think about using the truck, depending on future circumstances.

I know that I'm not the coolest guy on the forums, but I thought that I was at liked by the community. After the game I can feel the negativity and I am highly reconsidering that previous judgement. You didn't see us spazz out about us when we were told Richochets now apprentlly counted, we calmy said okay and we backed out.

THIS WAS ALSO THE RUSSIAN ONLY TACITICAL ADVANTAGe, NOTICE AS SOON AS YOU TOOK THE TRUCK OUT OF PLAY YOU TOOK THE FOB AND THE HQ?
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:44 pm

More cool points Badtrooper. I appreciate your honesty.

I was wrong about riccochets. Thats what I was told 5 games ago and stuck with it. So It was my fault.

I dont think anyone is blaming you guys for something in Vietnam... No worries about that.
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:46 pm

Fireman refrenced it and say it may be time to break out the black list, I may be wrong though lemme check....
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:47 pm

I do not think anyones intensions were to bad mouth your squad (actually I dont recall them mentioning names).

The nature of feedback threads is for all of us to gether intel from the game and do our best to avoid any mixups in the next game. As a group, I have seen these mixups happen in 1 round, and never be an issue for the rest of the day.

You have played with most of these guys before and you know that this group/field has been one of the best atmospheres to play in. At least that is how I feel. Every game we have situations. We experience, we learn, we move on...

All in all, our major problem has been communication. Once we get that panned out, things should be almost perfect (Ref Shars Red Writing)...


I can only speak for me... I could play at Firezone Weekly as long at it maintains the same Atmosphere.
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:51 pm

well put shwell
no body is being negative I think we are just need to communicate!
thats it Smile
we have the coolest people show on our game, i havent seen any skanky people on none of our games!
if anything, i take the blame.
I WILL PUNISH MYSELF BY DEMOTING MYSELF FROM SUPREME COMMANDER TO GENERAL 3 STARS.
i will still keep the vehicle and the asian suckretary.

shar Smile
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Jacob "Badtrooper"
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Join date : 2009-12-30
Location : Oviedo

PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:56 pm

I guess I interpeted them badly, I say we just put this behind us and move on....


We're all friend here anyways =D
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PostSubject: Re: AAR for Red Dawn   

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AAR for Red Dawn
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